Foundations: Ask Us Anything – Websites & Customer Journeys

by | Oct 22, 2021

In the first of a series of Q&A sessions with the MINT team, Nicola, Pete and Alan talk about websites, customer journeys, SEO and analytics.

Okay, welcome to, we’re calling it ask us anything. And obviously me and Pete and Alan, what we’re going to do is set the scene about where we were four years ago, and really the journey we’ve got to now with all the web changes we’ve made, you know, with all of our website stuff, with our own customer journey and how we’re capturing data and signing people up and which lists they’re going to.

Watch the session below:

Transcript of Video


Okay, welcome to, we’re calling it ask us anything. And obviously me and Pete and Alan, what we’re going to do is set the scene about where we were four years ago, and really the journey we’ve got to now with all the web changes we’ve made, you know, with all of our website stuff, with our own customer journey and how we’re capturing data and signing people up and which lists they’re going to.


That whole thing, because our journey over four years has been like mind blowing, as you can imagine. So we were sitting and thinking, actually, this would really help you guys to be able to map out your own customer journey. If you haven’t already, reconsider it and think about your own website and what you’re doing with it. The training I’ve done with Let’s Talk About Marketing, everybody’s telling us, they’ve got referrals from their website, but they’re not quite sure how.


So I was sitting there thinking people are getting like emails all over the place. They’re getting to their website, but they’re not quite sure how they’re ending up with that. So I think we need to unpick that a little bit. So what I’m going to do is I want you all please to have, good morning everybody, a lovely cup of tea like Lucinda, she looks like you look like proper stately there. Cathryn’s got her tea. I hope you’ve all got your tea. Oh, look we’ve got all the teas, good. And Claire. So I’ve got cold coffee, but nevermind.


So get your pens and paper because what I want the objective for the end of this is that you’ve got loads of scribbled notes about what is my customer journey currently? What are the things I need to tweak and what am I doing with my website? That’s the point of this session, but it’s not a formal training session. It’s a Chitty chatty session.


So I’m going to stop and take us back. Can you, for me, before we do that, and certainly there’s some people on here don’t know each other, introduce yourself, please, please introduce yourself. Properly put your handles in there and everything.


I need to know if you have in your business, some kind of customer journey mapped out at all, whether that’s in your head on a piece of paper or scribbled on the wall, you know, do you have an actual, do you have a flow through your business where you know where people come from and where the get to.


And the other one I want you to put in the chat please is where we’re at with your website. Like right now, in terms of website SEO, what you’re stuck with, because whilst we’ve got Alan and Peter for a whole hour, as many questions about websites as possible.


So I’m going to stop the recording and give you just a couple of minutes, introduce your business. Where are you at with a customer flow, customer journey of your business? And where are you at with your website? Okay, let me just, okay.


So thank you all for all of your comments about your website and about where you are with the customer journey. I think it’s fair to say that we’re not particularly planned with our customer journeys and the websites perhaps could be better because we’ve had a lot of done, not perfect, kind of makes it easy. Cause we know where we’re all starting from.


So let’s roll you back. Four years, four years ago, Mint Business Club was registered in November, 2017 and we took our first members in January, 2018. So it’s four years next month that I registered this company, which is extraordinary.


However yeah, the company is extraordinary, but the four years is extraordinary as well. When we started, there was a very clear, very clear purpose to the company, which was just to help lots of people like me. Self-Employed, no company, no people around us. Nobody to talk to, lacking in skills myself, didn’t know what was going on. And when the days were bad, the days were bad. So the, the vision of the company was absolute.


The way I attracted those first members. In that very first month, the customer journey part was, every single one of them I knew personally. I knew every single person personally, because I’ve trained them or they’re in my community or they’d come back from the business before. So I did not at all set up an SEO thing, recruitment policy. Like I didn’t do any of that because our first 52 members I knew, right?


So there was nothing in place at that time, other than I’m going to get everybody I know who I’ve trained for years and years and years into this business and help them some more. So the website at that time was very much for the members and only for the members, there was information about like Mint or Savvies as it was then, but there was, there was nothing to do with this idea of having a proper SEO plan and SEO strategy. Like how can I get new members? I hadn’t and I didn’t think about that at all. What I wanted was a functional website for the members, which its purpose was to book events. Cause we were all face to face then.


All right. So take it back four years. And Pete, I’d ask you to jump in. Now we knew we had a strategy and we had a plan, but the website certainly was absolutely for one thing. And didn’t consider all of the others. Is that fair Pete?


I absolutely, I think at the time, what we were looking at was the brand. And we were looking at what was what our membership needed at the time which was, as Nic said, was about booking events. It was about, I seeing blog posts, it was about the training, getting the videos on there, having access to that material. So that was the purpose of the website.


I think from an SEO perspective, it didn’t come into it. And what I wanted to add in there Nic, when you’re developing a website, typically SEO isn’t part of that development phase because SEO is that ongoing journey. And I think anybody who expects to launch a website and be on page one, it’s not going to happen. Unfortunately it does take time. It does take effort, you know, and you have to keep on, you have to keep putting fresh material on there.


I know we’ll cover this a bit later on, but for, for Mint was a really active website because there was material going on there every week. There was new videos going on. There, there was blog posts on there, there was interaction, but it was all private. It was all hidden behind the scenes. And that’s why the SEO didn’t really get much traction.


Yeah, I think it’s absolutely fair to say that. And that was its purpose. Right? So we did have a very specific purpose for that website. It was for you, it was for you to put your blogs on there. It was for you to put your membership stuff online. It was for you to network. In the early days we had networking and chat and everything going on. Which, which, to be honest, we gave up on it cause nobody would come out of Facebook, which is fair enough. Cause we all use Facebook, but it had a purpose, right? It really did have a purpose, but I’d never considered it as a sales tool.


I didn’t consider a website as a sales tool. It was a functional purpose for members. So the sales strategies sat over there somewhere. Right. So take a pen now because you’re not just going to listen to us. What is the purpose of your website right now? Like I can honestly say, I think Alan, you joined really quickly, but it didn’t have a sales purpose. It had a, for the members behind a wall purpose, but there wasn’t an actual defined purpose, was there?


Although there wasn’t really a purpose for me at all in bootcamp in the early days. In fact, I’d go as far as to say, I’d never visited the website as a member because there wasn’t, because everything was face to face in those days that there wasn’t a need for me to be there and bootcamp once a month, I knew, and most of the time remembered, there wasn’t anything that I needed to go to the website for until we all went into lockdown. And then it suddenly became, you know, sometimes putting training on there every single day.


Yeah. So, I mean, keep coming in Pete. I’ll keep this recording on. I’m really wanting you to think about right now, the actual purpose of your website.


Yeah. Can I just add in, one of the purposes when we launched the Mint website was exactly what Alan said there, it was about merging the businesses, wasn’t it? You know, you had different strands to your empire and the Mint website was about bringing. in the Digital Sparkles and the Savvy Solos and, and actually growing it to micros. And it was, Alan’s right, his, his role within the organisation at that point was about boot camp. That was his focus to develop his business. Other people, it was about the training, for other people it was about the networking and actually thinking about the overall purpose for your website and your online presence is so important. Taking that step back to strategise,


Which is what this is today. So this is the start of your strategy almost, in where you are right now with what you’re using this website. And what I would definitely want to say is that the website is owned by you. I’ve said this for 10 years or however long I’ve gone on about it. If you have a website that you own, you own it and it’s yours. You don’t own Facebook. Facebook goes down, we’re knackered. When Instagram goes down, we’re knackered. All of them go down, we’re knackered but your website is yours. Unless the whole of the world goes down and then I guess we’re all in a different situation. Your website is yours. You have ownership of it. You don’t have ownership of any other digital marketing, apart from your newsletters. That is the only two things that you own.


So I think the scare we all got last week when everything went off and we all run our businesses through these major platforms, that’s a real possibility, right? I’ve known people lose their Facebook accounts. And I know I’ve known them being closed down, but your website is yours. Your website is owned, it develops and grows with your business as you grow. You add those new products on whatever, but without the understanding of what it’s for in the first place, it is often the most neglected thing.


You know, we’ll drop on Facebook every day and put a post on or some of us will, you know, and we’ll do that. But the website then gets neglected. But yet Google search is still the biggest search engine in the world, you know. Google search is there and your websites coming up and then neglected. So this is why I really want you to hone in right now on, do I actually understand why I’ve got it or did someone a few years ago to say you best have a website, shove one up?


Cause that’s not a strategy shoving a website up is not a strategy. It has to give you something. You’re going to pay money for it. You’re going to pay for development. You’re going to take time. You’re going to spend ages with the content, all the rest of it. It has to give you a result at the end, but without strategy in the first place, what results are we looking for? Okay. Put your thoughts in the chat, please as we go on. Let me see what you’re saying.


Lucinda is saying her website is just to provide further information about me and my business. Okay. So is that all you want for your business, Lucinda, or do you want clients? Cause I hear all of that and I absolutely, we want all of that. We want to provide information. We want to give legitimacy. We want the testimonials, the blogs on there, but that is, all of that, the end goal of all of that is new clients and sales because that is all marketing to get new clients. So actually, if we’re not really thinking about our websites as a sales tool as I wasn’t, by the way. So I include myself in this. My, my website was like yours Lucinda. It was for members. That’s what it was for. I didn’t think I should be getting new members and sales out of this four years ago.


So your website is a mix of knowledge, info, sales for products, right? What are the, so what I’m reading is I’m hearing that you understand what content is on your website, but what I’m not reading is what is the purpose of your website? Do you see the difference? It’s got content on. It’s got this on. It’s got that on. That’s great. That’s all marketing and you absolutely need it. But what is the end actual purpose, right?


60 people in a newsletter. Signup, giving away 10 freebies. Signing up three new clients, driving people to come to your events. This is, so this is really interesting for me, Alan and Pete jump in here. We know what’s on it, but do we know what it’s for? It’s not the same.


Clare, to generate sales. Awesome. How many sales, how much sales? What is your target? Come back with a number. This is what I want to stretch you on. If you can’t say to me, these are the outcomes I want then this is what we need to pull apart and do some more training on. Okay. Pete and Alan, jump in with that one.


I was just going to add on the sales one, it’s about, yes, you want them to come in and have a sale, but then where do they go next? How do you keep them engaged? Like Nic said about the newsletter, but what about the cross selling opportunities? The upselling opportunities, making sure they’re on the website so that you can, they may well come in for a product, but they may leave with 10 products if you’re, if you pitched it right on the website. Yeah.


Okay. Look at what Cathryn’s written. I want people to press the big purple button that says book an appointment. And then how many people do need to press that? How many appointments are you selling? How far forward? So as Pete’s saying, if the website has this very specific purpose and it has to be linked to sales for us, surely some way, at least as a port, like a stop on the journey for sales, then the next bit is that sales plan, that revenue plan, Let’s Talk About Money, if you haven’t done it yet. Right? All of that, because that is at the, I had this conversation with my husband two days ago, he says at the end of the day, your end key performance indicator is how much money is in your bank. I’m going, Yeah. Can’t argue with that because it is.


The other thing though, is those who sell on their website or even people who have book an appointment is what the conversion rate is. So it’s not just about how many sales you’re getting. How many visits, how many appointments you’re getting, it’s how many you’re getting compared to how many visitors there were. So for an e-commerce site, for Niall and Phil and Laura and Claire, you, you need to be tracking how many sales are you getting against your visitors?


So if you, if you have ridiculous peaks and troughs like 2020, where for most e-commerce businesses, it’s more, probably more important to, to attract that conversion. So you can see for every hundred visitors, how many sales are you getting? Because I’ve seen a lot of e-commerce businesses in the last sort of three to four months have really plummeted. But if you look at that conversion rate, the conversion rates are actually the same. It’s just the visitors that have dropped off because people are going back to school and back to work and back to holidays, to concerts and all of those kinds of things. And it’s very easy to say, to have a panic and saying sales have dropped off a cliff, but they haven’t. Visitors have dropped off a cliff.


Yeah. And if, if your conversion rate does go down, then you look at things like what’s what’s your stock availability like? Have you got things out of stock? Have you put your prices up? Has somebody else come along and they’re selling similar products to you for cheaper? Or, you know, look at your competition. Cathryn’s asking, how do you measure conversion rate?


Alan, I’ll tell you what, just jump in now. Cause Rea’s asking what is a good conversion rate? So we might as well answer this now. So for all of us, there are all of the data, either in your website or on your Google analytics or whatever. And Pete and Alan will take over from me as this is not my thing, but all of that data, it is there for you to see. That’s the first thing I want to say. So maybe there’s an objective here. If you don’t understand Google analytics. And if you don’t understand the data, that’s a really big, high level objective for you to understand. So Alan and Pete take us back. Just some of the terminology, quite slowly for people who need to write it down, because when we’re right at the start of this journey, and that includes me, we’ve got people visit and then what happens then?


Does everyone know what Google analytics are? Has everyone got Google analytics on their website? Okay.


So some of you haven’t okay. Put, put in the feed who has not got Google analytics on their website so I can get some training in there. Okay. So come back to, let’s have a real basic two minutes on the basic, basic stuff.


Okay. So Google analytics, Alan can do the conversion rates because he knows, he knows that stuff better than I do. But Google analytics is a, is a Google tool, which monitors your website. So it’s got a load of information, more information than you’ll ever, ever need, but there are some great reports on there. So you can see who’s accessing your website, where from, demographics, information, what time of day they’re they’re accessing it. And so on. There’s loads of information on them. But the key thing is to track traffic to your website, making sure you are getting visitors.


But some of the information that’s on there, things like if they’re coming to your website, where are they leaving? Are they coming to your homepage and then just bouncing out and not going any further? If not, if they are doing that, that could be a real indicator that your website hasn’t got enough sort of calls to action.


It’s not taking them through that journey on the website. So if you haven’t got analytics already, it’s worthwhile doing so if you need help setting that up, we can give you, give you some advice and guidance on that. There is a plugin called monster insights that some people use, which puts the analytics into your website. I don’t use that, but some people prefer doing that. Cause it’s all within the website then. But if you want stats around what’s happening on your web site, who’s going on there it’s analytics, but it does look confusing. But when you start to look at the reports, it’s actually not too bad, but maybe we will, if we get some training in place there and actually walk you through what the analytics mean, it might start making a lot more sense.


Yeah. I think we’ve got some historic training that Cathryn and anybody else who’s a bit stuck can link it back to, from last year. We’ve got Google analytics training in the archive, but, but this, this helps us really form an understanding of what you need next.


Claire is just really honest and just saying, you know, I’m scared of doing it. It frightens the life out of me. I’ll be really honest. I can look at the top level, Google analytics, but beyond that, I get too overwhelmed and confused. So if we would agree that what we need to know is, you know, your top end, how many visitors are you getting? Some visitors. I mean, we’ve got to even start there, Alan, haven’t we? Are we actually getting some visitors?


Yeah, exactly. Just to answer a couple of the questions, how you measure the conversion rate is if you, whatever your goal is on the website, whether it’s to sell a product, or to get somebody to book an appointment, that’s your goal. And if you’ve had a hundred visitors and you’ve got one appointment or one sale, then you’ve got a 1% conversion. And in e-commerce terms, anything between one and 2% conversion is considered OK, which surprises a lot of people. And you know, you think I’ve had, I’ve had a hundred people come to my website. Why has only one person bought something? But that’s, it’s in some ways, all you can expect.


My e-commerce sites are more like three to 5%, but it’s, it all depends on how, how are you getting your traffic there? If you’re using quite wide ranging ads and you, you’re hitting a hell of a lot of people and you’re going to get a smaller conversion rate because it’s, you know, you, you get into the realms of is that, is it the right kind of audience you’re getting to your website? And in, in terms of conversions for things like appointments, I think you’d probably be looking at more like 25% is what you would expect. So it’s still only five, up to five people in a hundred. That’s not very many, but you know, knowing these things I think is, is the, the first part of, of succeeding in them, because you might want a hundred visitors and a hundred sales, it’s not gonna happen.


And, and the way to liken that is, is if you had a shop or for Niall for when he is standing on that stand, or you’re in the Metro Centre with this store, if a hundred people come to your stand or in your shop, a hundred people, you’d never expect all of them to buy. And yet online, for some reason, we expect a different, a different outcome, but just keep, always thinking a hundred people in my shop, a hundred people in my stand, a hundred people coming into Fenwick’s to buy the Christmas store or wherever you’re selling this year, you know, you’re not going to get every one of those, a hundred people buying something. They’re going to walk past, they’re going to look. Some of them might come back, right? So that might be a visit twice. So a visitor comes, goes away and comes back.


And you might only get five out of a hundred on that stand. You might get a higher conversion because it’s Christmas and they’re in front of you. And they’re looking for something specifically, but just always likening this back to it’s human beings, coming on your website. And it is a very small percentage. Exactly the same kind of percentages as you get from social media stuff that will actually buy. So some of you might be sitting there thinking, oh, God, I’m already getting that. I’m already getting if a hundred people visit the website, I know I get three or four sales. Actually, if that’s in product selling that’s actually a really amazing, a great conversion, you’re sitting there thinking it’s rubbish and it’s not now. So those are, yeah. I mean, just really quickly, how many, how many websites are you running on ecommerce at the minute?


About six or seven, six or seven.


And you have worked on some of them, for bathroom cladding I’m thinking specifically, what was it? 2013 that you built that and started running that?


2011, I think.


2011, my goodness. I’m just trying to give you a bit of context, Alan, that cause a lot of you actually might not know Pete and Alan and there’s an assumption on my part, but you know, Alan, in terms of ecommerce has his own websites, he’s got his high end websites and has been doing this for 10, 10 years then. So we’re seeing all of that. Whereas Pete and his development of the website, like literally between the two of them, there’s nothing that these two don’t know about websites and selling on a website. So let’s just position that.


Have we got all the questions answered about actual conversion. So you’ve got your visitors and you’ve got the, where they land and where they travel through your website and where they end up. You know, where, where they’re downloading stuff or are they reading blogs? So you’ve got these people crawling all over your website. And, but what you’re seeing is that the end objective is they need to go somewhere, do something.


Just, just on that, Nic, just to add in there, you know, when people talk about analytics and SEO and rankings and all the rest of it, it sounds like it just sounds confusing. It’s all connected though, as well. You know, if you’re not getting traffic, you’re not seeing any traffic through your analytics, then Google, isn’t going to notice you either. So if you’re, if you’re getting high volume, if you’re getting high traffic, hopefully Google is going to start noticing you as a website and say, this website looks credible. It’s getting traffic, let’s push it up the rankings a little bit. So it is worthwhile looking at those things and it is worthwhile because it will have an overall impact on how often people find you. And it’s like, selffulfilling the more traffic you can drive. The more traffic will come.


Cause you will get noticed. And it’s about tracking the traffic as well. If you’re, if you’re spending money, particularly if you spend the money on campaigns to bring people to your website, you want to know that it’s getting people there and I’m working with a client at the minute who would just handed money over to somebody for, you know, a website takeover campaign where they’d have their banners on somebody else’s website and they’d get traffic. And because they weren’t tracking, tracking it, they thought it was a complete waste of time. So I’ve tried to push them down the route of using UTMs. I don’t even know what it stands for. I do but I can’t remember. But it’s basically, you put some code on the end of the link and it allows your Google analytics to track where that link came from. So they’ve started using those in their campaigns. Now they’re seeing the 20, 30, 40 visitors a month from these campaigns. And it’s not that the campaigns are different. It’s that the practice, the tracking is different.


In all comes down in any bit of this to you tracking what leads to what, and I’m on my high horse with this at the minute, because so many of us do not know what leads to what. What kind of gets sales or appointments or things at the end. And we haven’t got clue where they’re coming from at the minute, you know, where it’s all coming from. Then you put your effort into the places that it’s coming from and you get rid of all of the other stuff, all the stuff we’re time wasting on.


You can be as granular as you want as well, because the same client would do emails. And they’d started to use tracking UTMs. And they put something like email as the source or the medium. And then, you know, we’d have to say what, what email was it? So then I was then encouraging them to, to start putting the, you know, a key word that that would allow them to identify which email it was. So knowing the analytics that might have three or four different emails you know, one got 20 clicks, one got one, one got 300 clicks or whatever. And because you you’re tracking that down to the, the content of the email, then you know, what’s working and what’s not. And if you’ve got, I mean, getting into goals in Google analytics is, is quite far down the line, it’s quite complicated, but you can set up a goal. So if somebody does something specific on your website, Google will track that as a success. And you can literally track that from the source. So you can see this email resulted in this many people to the website and this many conversions,


I’ve got a, I’ve got a link for you to Neil Patel’s blog about tracking UTM parameters. And Neil Patel is just absolutely extraordinary. New question from Lucinda. Cause I want to just roll on a little bit, cause we’re already to half past. Question is, is there a way to see who bookmarks your website because you’re doing that all the time. So there was this assumption that other people are tracking the website or bookmarking a website, I’m going to assume not. Because that’s our personal choice on what we’re tracking and saving,


I don’t think there is, I think that would be a GDPR issue. Big brother is really watching you!


But Lucinda is like, I want to know who is watching me. I want to know now. Okay. So, so let’s just imagine you’ve got this website of yours and you actually have nailed your vision for it and what the goal is. And then after we’ve got that goal, we’re going to use tools at our disposal like Google analytics or whatever to track against that goal. So let’s, let’s roll on, four years ago our goal was very much to have a website that was behind the scenes for you guys. You roll into what happened last year. I’ve lost the years. Are we 20 months ago, whatever it is. And all of a sudden, I couldn’t have your bonny faces in a room with me anymore. And I couldn’t run the business that I’d been growing and overnight, like everybody else, we’ get on a Zoom, we’re doing this thing.


We’re doing this thing. And then our website, the purpose started to change overnight because we had daily training, and our daily lives and people want to be on this and that. And we had more members training. It just went boom! So the, how actually having the website set up the way it was, was great because we’d just quickly switched into, We’ve got to put more on, we’ve got to put more on, we’ve got to put more on. And at that time it was still behind the scenes, right? It’s still behind the scenes because all we were doing was serving you all and trying to get us all through this, this moment in history.


But then I realised I had no other way to sell because every event I’d ever done and every networking event I’d ever do, or me going out and about the community, me just being the loud one at the front, right? That vanished.


And that’s how I sell, I go out and I’m me and that’s how I sell. So it was like, oh right, we’ll have to do our tasters online. Oh, how, how are we going to do that? How are we going to, oh, we don’t really have an SEO strategy for a website because it’s always been behind the scenes. And now this cataclysmic thing has happened. The model has to just entirely change. Okay.


So we have to have this, this look at this customer journey. And let’s think about this. Now, your customers who always found you at a market or whatever, or in that shop, all of a sudden it was like, well, I’m not allowed out so I’m going online. So all of our customer journeys at that moment, completely switched around unless you’re, I don’t know, making toilet rolls. I suppose that was a bit different for those people. But in general, like every single client we all had, like everything was tipped on its head.


So then at that point we’re like, what are we going to do now? Customer journey, how do we get new members? How do we keep the members we’ve got? How do we serve you better? How do I hold our community together? How do I find new people? Because the way I’ve always done it for all of my self employed life, like 10 years, I can’t do it anymore. And in came Peter and Alan with, well, we need to use the website differently. We need to change the website. We need to switch, switch it up, We need to split it off. Even now, I’m like, oh my gosh, what are you talking about? So guys, do you want to jump in here with this, this understanding of how our customer journeys, how your customer journey is the next exercise I’m going to ask you to start mapping out where your customers are coming from, either in face-to-face or online. But Alan, Pete now jump in with we’re 18 months ago, whatever. Oh, we’ve got to change everything we do. Website changed.


Yeah. When I’ll, I’ll start off with just, I mean, just to re recap, you know, we had one website, which was a members only website. It had a little bit of information on there for, for the public, but not a great deal. It was, the public side was really just to encourage people to, to join a membership, but everything was hidden that they couldn’t really see anything. And I think that was the awakening that Alan came up with and sort of said, actually, people can’t see this, but they don’t, we’re not selling anything. So therefore, how do we attract new people in?


But just to recap on the changes, I mean, we hadn’t used Zoom. 18 or 20 months ago, Zoom wasn’t part of our organisation. EventBrite wasn’t really part of our organisation. We’d never done tasters online. That all had to change. And we had to bring people into that, but utilising those tools, not just the website, but utilising the power of EventBrite, even because that attracts people in externally and looking at the tools available outside of it, but Alan, do you just want to pick up on the website and the split.


Yeah. it was, there was three, three reasons for it, really. One of them was SEO and Nicola’s just put in the chat there, the man called Neil Patel, he was a bit of an SEO genius and he’s got his, his SEO tool that you can use. He’s got a free version. We’ve actually got the paid version. And that really kind of showed us what people are doing on the website. What, what, they’re not, why people are coming to the website and also why they’re not coming to the website. And as it says, there was a lot of hidden content on there.


So the, the best the best performing websites in terms of SEO have got every single page optimised. And how can you optimise every single page when you’re actively blocking most of the world from seeing some of the pages, most of the pages, because they’re behind a membership wall.


So there was a hell of a lot of work going on for us to be putting stuff on that website every single day, putting the training on there, but then the upcoming events on there. But we weren’t really doing anything for people who weren’t members, people were landing on the site and we’re trying to sell them Mint Business Club to new members. And there was nothing really on there to do that. So we we took the decision to split the membership off into it, its own site. So it makes the, the user journey a little bit easier for members as well, because everything’s all in one place and there’s, there’s less there’s fewer walls. So we’re not we’re not necessarily putting barriers behind every single piece of content because you log into the website and pretty much everything’s there.


But then it allows us to focus on the, on the public site and do more blogs and more more training that’s actually accessible for, for non-members and things like that. So really there was, there was quite a few reasons why we, why we did that. And looking at, looking at the data, what the data was telling us was really what drove it. It wasn’t just plucking an idea right off the top of your head.


I think we started, and this is where I’d encourage you to think about your customer journey right now.

So we’ve got you as existing clients and then we’ve got potential clients out there who don’t know us.

But what we realised was in the, in the world that we are in now, you know, we’ve got no time. We need to make things as easy as possible. Arguably, we should always have that in mind, but we didn’t have the pressure of the COVID stuff going on. Do you know what I mean? We had a system and it worked.


So the first thing for your customers, for your customer journey is, is how easy is it for them? And we sat there, going, how easy is it for our members go here, to do this? But if you go on on the website, you get distracted by that bit. There’s another funded training bit on there. And that’s a distraction. Actually, all we want you to do is to be able to log in dead easily, book the events you want to come to, read whatever’s going on in there. And it is about the events, right? So it’s, it’s about you guys being able to get in there, see the events and see the past training because all of a sudden we’ll have this massive backlog of training, which we’d never had before. Cause we were always face to face.


So the two things that are really important for us to want to share with you is how easy is our journey?

How easy can you get on the blooming website? How easy can you find the past training? Which is vital. How easy can you book yourself on the next training? Dead simple four things. And by splitting that website off for you, all our customers, you have an easier journey.


I was just going to say, you know, we see the website and every developer, every business owner sees their website in a certain way, but we don’t see it as the customer. Very often. It’s very hard to see it as the customer. So we need, you need to either put yourself in their shoes or ask them for feedback. And we do ask for feedback and we do listen to the feedback from members. We try to adapt so that we’re constantly sort of throwing around ideas and based on feedback we get. And if you don’t ask the feedback from customers or people you trust, do so. It does no harm.


And I tell you what, our new customers who joined us throughout the process of lockdown had such a different experience to the ones I knew personally, four years ago. It was them that started telling us, I cannot find this thing or where do I go for that? And you know, some of that is about people forgetting. Absolutely. You know, or they haven’t read that email or whatever. And we’re assuming that people know, and then we’re getting these messages. I just cannot find this. And I just cannot find that. And we’re like, okay, how do we make this easier? Because actually you were telling us, we were getting these queries and it’s like, hang on, we’ve got two or three queries. Like people are struggling to find the bit that we need them to find, how do I make your lives easier? How do we make your lives easier?


Take your pens right now. I just want you to think about where your customers are coming from right. Cause, cause this is the start of a customer journey. Do you know right now where the majority of your customers come from? So is it face to face events again? Is it through Facebook? Is it through email, which probably that inquiry came through your website? Are you aware where your customers come from now? Because all this work on the website, you know, if you get loads of customers off your website, great. If you get none, well, we’ve got to do some work on that, but do you honestly know and share this or not, because you might be sitting there thinking, oh God, I just don’t know. If you don’t want to share it but don’t but for your own knowledge right now, take two minutes and just go, where are our customers? Where do my customers buy? Where do they find me? Right, right now, just, just a minute.


And even if it is referrals, because a lot of my work comes through referrals, people are still looking for you to find out a bit more information. If someone recommends me, someone else, I will look at their website. I’ll look at their social media. I will try and find out more.


Yeah. And build on in what you’re thinking about. Cause Lucinda has also just said that she bookmarks loads of websites and she’d love to know who’s bookmarked her. Wouldn’t we all? Of course we would. Right? Cause you’d go and sell to those people, but you know, do you understand where your customer’s coming from? And actually that’s correct. If you’re going to buy something, how do you research that thing? Right? So if, if Pete gets referred, I refer Pete, as you can imagine, all the time. Alan too, well all of you actually, but if I refer Pete, Pete, then naturally goes, oh, this company might want to work with me. I’m going to their website. Then he might do socials. He might do that and go to the website and have a look at them before he makes a decision on whether he’s going to work or pitch or whatever.


I mean, if they don’t have a website, that’s easy Pete, mind. Cause you’re there to build them one. No website, yeah I want to work with them. Right! So do you as a human then flick around the websites and the socials? You know what I mean? Because this is what our customers are doing right now. What you do, your customers do. Especially if your customers are quite like you. So just another minute, keep it coming through. Like word of mouth will always be there and you’re talking one or two or three. But I always like to think of like, if that person has recommended Mint, what, what was it? Did they then go and look at the website? Did they look at the socials? Did they watch, watch the live events, you know, that’s lush. It is so precious that people recommend genuinely recommend. But where did that start from? How did that person get to know your business to be able to recommend you? Did that start from visiting your website three years ago? What leads to what?


It’s like the kickstart is a good example, actually, because a lot of people are finding us from a government website, which we’re on there as a, as a preferred supplier. So actually they may come to our website. They’re coming on to look at us, but the actual initial contact is an external website. So having your website externally noted or listed is really important as well.


I’m just going to, while you’re all thinking about this, Niall’s saying his conversion rate, loving this, at a

live event with people trying his products is nearly a hundred percent, which is extraordinary. Okay? Nearly everybody that has some chili sauce buys it. But the marketing behind that is you’ve gotta be standing there. You’ve got to have the products in front of you, to give the tester out. You’ve got to do all the work, cook it in the kitchen first, blah, blah, blah. But actually knowing that that conversion rate, this is not a website. It’s conversion rate. If Niall, if you stand there, at one of those events, you know, you’re going to sell. If people will taste it. So it’s a hundred people go past 10, people taste it. Nine of them, at least buy that’s the level of data. That’s the level of detail. So then you want to go, I need 200 people to go past and 20 to stop. Cause at least 18 of them are going to buy.


And when you get that in your head, like you’ve got for the events. If you have that for your website, and if you have that for your social or the other stuff you do, it becomes empowering because you actually know it’s worthwhile standing on that event. Cause as long as 10 people taste, you’ll sell nine bottles or packs of three or four, what are they going as?


There’s a follow up opportunity as well, because you’ve got, you’ve converted somebody to buy your chili sauce at an event they’re going to go away. And if they’re anything like me, they’ll want some more and what do they do? What do you do then? Do you, are you going to push them to go, to find a stockist or you’re going to push them to buy online? That’s really for a business that sells online and also has stockist around the Northeast or around the country. That’s a really critical thing. Where are you pushing?


A great comment. Can we just, yeah. I mean, I’m interested, Cathryn, are they, just come live just for a second, are your stats there where people are coming from? Are they off Clinico? Cause that’s what you use, isn’t it?


So I, when they fill in their patient registration form, it says, how did you hear about Cathryn Clark Physiotherapy? And those are the summarised answers.


Okay. I’m just loving the level of detail. I wish all of us had a Clinico. We all can, right there you go. Screaming Chimp. Brilliant. Nice bit of marketing placement, have you got a bottle? Hold a bottle up as well. You must have a bottle. Show people, while we’re doing this. You’re on, you’re on mute. Hang on. I’m going to make you loud. Okay. Can you just, we’re going to bring them in. We’ll have to, Screaming

Chimp. But look at the data that Cathryn has. Our question right now is how do you guys get that data? And it’s in, it is in Google to an extent it’s in Facebook, to an extent. It’s from your events, to an extent. How do you get that level of data where you know, 20% of your previous patients have recommended you, right? Like they, this is gold dust for us.


And this can come out of understanding your websites better, but it also comes off just understanding the flow of your customers through your business. Because any one of those you could kind of think, well, you know, the North Tyneside Business Forum 3% of my work comes from their Facebook. So I’ll tell you what, I’ll keep in there and I’ll do, well I’m not going to do a hundred percent of my time in it because I’ve got 3% of my work from there. But these are the places that are giving us 20 or 24% or ten percent. I’m going to put more effort in those places. Cause I’ve got more return from those places. And eventually you get rid of the places that don’t work. You just stop wasting your time on stuff that doesn’t work. Let, let’s keep rolling on. I’m gonna get you talking in a second.


But let’s keep rolling along because we’ve only got 10 minutes. Right? So we’ve got this idea that we’ve got to do more with our websites. We’ve got this idea that we’ve got to have data. We, we split our stuff off. We went to the extreme and please remember this is four years journey, four years. We have not done this in a minute. When we’ve had a name change in that. And we’ve had a business direction change in that. We’ve had COVID in that. Let’s just bring it. So we have split you all off. You have one place to go to make your journey easier. We now have the other bit, which will infill with really rich content, more blogs, more videos, more stuff, more stuff, more keywords, more stuff. So people can find us, so different people find us. Alan and Peter, can you come in on that?


And I’m not suggesting you need to go away and split your websites and do that because you, you guys don’t have the same businesses, but why I wanted to share this was we realised it wasn’t a really smooth customer journey for our clients because of the change that COVID pushed on us. And we couldn’t assume it was still the same. Like people turned on for the events. It was cool. It was lush. And then we did a bit online and then it was everything’s online. So yeah, we had to change the business model, right? So I don’t know, Pete, Alan, do you want to come in with that?


Just picking up on some of the comments there as well. Laura, you did split your business because you had two completely separate businesses. You are doing branding and design that you charge a higher hourly rate for. And then you’ve got greetings cards and wedding stationary that you charge a low product rate for so that you were probably never going to be taken seriously as a designer while you’re selling stationary, which is why you split your businesses.


But just to, just to pick up on what Nicola’s said in there about content, one of the important things about your websites and your SEO is there has to be a strategy. And it’s a word that scares a lot of people off because it’s, it feels like such a big word, but a lot of people seem to think that just putting content and content and content on the website is going to help with SEO.


It will, if it’s the right kind of content, if it’s all the same content, you know, if you’re, if your business has physiotherapy in every single blog you write, is keyword rich for physical therapy, all that’s going to happen is those blogs are going to compete against each other. And so you need to have that strategy there that’s gonna bring in other key words that, you know, your homepage is going to, you want your homepage to rank for the most important, important term of your business, but then all of the other things in your business, that’s where you start to use your content and your blogs and the social media posts and your social proof. So that a lot of people kind of come to me and to Pete and almost think you can just switch a switch SEO on. It’s not as simple as that.


It’s, it’s quite complicated. And for some people I’ve had conversations in the past with Phil about being a photographer and how, how likely you are to rank highly for photography, when there”s millions of photographers in the world, it’s really, really difficult. So you have to choose your own particular niche and understand who your target audience is, what they’ve got, what they’re searching for. And then there’s the search intent. So they’re searching for something, they find you, they found what they’re looking for.


And that’s another story from one of my clients this week that switched on a keyword in Google ads that had a hell of a lot of visitors coming into them, thinking they were someone else and that search intent, they’re trying to be clever by using the key word that a lot of people search for, but all that’s happening is they’re spending a fortune to get a lot of phone calls from people thinking that they’re somebody else. So search intent is really important as well.


Pete, what do you want to feed into this?


I’m just going to say in terms of the SEO side of it, I mean, I think tracking data ranking is really important, and there are tools out there that can help you position where you are. You don’t need to sit there and go through Google counting, how far back you are. Look for the tools, I use SE Ranking. I use Neil Patel to tell me where I’m ranking on certain keywords. They are worthwhile looking at. The other thing I want to add on just what was said before is about customer value, which is something that Mint talks about a lot.


And, you know, we talked before about for Cathryn, I think 3% of referrals came from North Tyneside

Business Forum. But if they’re your high value clients, that could be a really important one to focus on 3%. But if those, if they’re worth a thousand pounds, the other one’s worth five, five pounds, that’s where your focus has got to be. So knowing your customer value, knowing your clients and knowing how much the likely sales are going to be is probably more important than numbers coming through.


Love that Pete, because it’s something that I hadn’t thought about, but it’s obvious isn’t it? If you’ve got one place that’s driving one type of customer who spends six times more than that place over there, and this is where all of the data matters. Pet’s absolutely right, it’s, you don’t just take a bit of data and go that is gospel cause it’s not. And Pete, I think you said half an hour ago that every single bit interlaps with every bit and all crisscrosses, and this goes with this, which goes with that, which was well, because your customer journey, isn’t just about that one moment or that seal, you want them to come back or how did they find you? Or they saw you that event there. And then they’ve seen you down there, like there’s a whole, there’s a whole ecosystem of things leading this, that and the other.


And if you take one bit of data out of context, like Alan’s just said, you’re going to go and pay for this search term because we’re all going to use that search term. And everybody that rings your company is looking for the company down the road. I mean, that’s, that’s just like, then you’re like, what’s this about? So thank you for that, Pete, because it’s really, really important. Actually drilling down, we get that data and think 20% of leads come from there and 3% come from there, but who are those people in that 20% and not what value per person does that give my business, right? Each one of those people from that 3% place have spent a thousand pounds and each one of those from that 20% place have spent a hundred pounds. And then you’re like, right. And that it might be big variances like that.


And it might not be, it might be that actually, you’re going to stick with your 20% place. You dig down, you dig down into it and, and I’m like my absolutely lush colleagues, peter and Alan, I’m a big geek on this. I’m not as clever as them. I don’t get it, but I want, I want to know. My geeky isn’t the numbers. It’s about the people behind it. Like I want to know which people are from where, because it’s the people that matter.


And this is the other thing, I mean, I know we’re four minutes away, we can stay a bit longer, but you know, your websites are for people. So in part your strategy, if we’re thinking key words or thinking all of that, it’s really important, but you’ve got to remember, it’s people buying and it’s people reading. Yes, the bots and the Googles of the world to get them there and they are important. So we have to serve that. We know that, but in the olden days when I started trading, just put a blog on that it’s full of key, rich words, and it makes no sense to any human, but Google loves it. It’s way gone.


Just on that point about bots and Nicola, there’s three additional things for me, just one picking up on Niall’s comment. I’ll have a look at your website and the recent feedback. No problem. Cathryn start quarterly, I think monthly is probably going to be too much for you at first. Weekly, I would never recommend because you can barely turn around and a week’s over. And I’ve got a client who asks me to report weekly and I’ve been telling them for months, it’s absolutely pointless.


But just on the whole bot thing, what Google is doing at the minute is it’s, it’s shifting SEO rankings towards real life experiences. So it’s no longer just about keywords or just about, you know, the technical things that you do at your website. For quite a while now it’s been about security insights, speed. So those are things that really affect the user experience.


If the site’s not secure, it’s not good for the user. If it’s not very fast, you can lose somebody in less than three seconds. But also what, what they’ve recently done is just to start introducing things like how, how much the website changes. Most websites, these days are responsive. And that means that they can shift the design of the layout, shift from a big monitor to a small monitor to a tablet, to a phone. And if there’s elements on the page that shift around, and I’m sure you’ve been on a website where you’ve got to click on something and suddenly something else has loaded and you’ve clicked on the wrong thing.

That really impacts SEO. Now it impacts rankings because it’s not a very good user experience. And things like what, what Google used to do was look at the whole, the loading time for the whole page.


But now it looks at the loading time for what you can see when you first, when you first opened the browser or on your phone, because what happens beneath the fold, if you like. Where your screen ends, it doesn’t really matter. It’s how it responds. When you start scrolling down the page, your page starts to load. As long as that top section has loaded quickly, you won’t be as penalised as before for the rest of the page. So it’s, it’s a lot, a lot of technical things are going on, but it’s all these days being shifted towards real life experience.


Just to tie into that, Alan. When we’re making changes to a website or doing concept we normally do on a laptop or desktop, but the majority, if you look at the referrals on your Google analytics, the majority of people accessing your website are probably on mobile devices. And how much time do we spend testing and going through the customer journey on a mobile device compared to the laptops and desktops.


Yes. And you’ll have two rankings. If you, if you look at a tool like, just Google site speed checker, and you put your URL in there, it will give you two results. And it’s a lot more difficult to get a high result from mobile, a hell of a lot more difficult. Actually some websites that are I run can be in the nineties on a desktop and in the tens on a mobile until you, until you really work at them because it’s a hell of a lot more difficult. And then because there’s a lot more viewers, a lot more people accessing the site on a mobile.


Okay. So we’ll go to 11 o’clock and I’ll. And do you have to rush off right now? Or can we just stay a little bit longer?


I’m OK for a few minutes.


Just a couple of moments. And I know I’ve got an appointment at half past 11, so can’t stay probably more than more 10 minutes more. But right now the thing I want to say is, excuse me, your website isn’t just a thing that has to just sit there. And that’s what I really want you to get out of this this morning, right? Putting the website up just because is an utter waste of time. It’s it’s, you know, you could call it a shop front. Call it what you want. Like it is an utter waste of time putting a website up just for it to sit there and look pretty, if nothing else this morning that has given you, I hope you understand that your customer journey, how they find you, the data that you can get.


How that drives sales. This is what our website’s for. Okay. So right now, Alan and Pete, well, Alan at the minute is feeding into my brand new website for the new social enterprise we’ve launched. Okay. And what I’ve said to them is here’s all the stuff, that’s the branding, this is the about us page, just so we can get it started. The point of it though, is, is, is much wider than just a little bit of pretty thing that someone can find us. You know, if I want to tend to for work, I need to, I need a website up. I need a tool to bring that community together so I can meet the vision of the business, which is to help people with ADHD. That’s what it’s there for. It’s not there to look pretty. It’s not there to be ignored.


It’s not there to have no content on. It’s there to do, do the bidding of the social enterprise. It’s there to bring people in the community to help me get money funded. So this idea that we’re sitting there with a

website, it’s, it’s all right, it’s fine, it’s fine. That’s not what this is for. You’re business owners and this level of detail we’re getting into, just, it just kind of opens your world in a what’s going on in your business and where people are buying from and how to sell more. So I’m at the very start of that journey again. And I’ve had a lot of websites and I’ve spent many thousands of pounds on them because it is much more than just a pretty thing. That’s like a poster in a window and I was holding them up and people use some websites like posters in the windows.


It’s just, that’s not what they’re for. And without being scared of strategy, can I just tell you about this word strategy? Because Claire I think will come with me on this. I cannot write a strategy to save my life, unless I’m probably hyper hyper focused to the minute I cannot do it. But what I can do is talk through my vision, talk through what I want to achieve and bring Alan and Pete in to help me write the strategy. Because once you’ve got that strategy plan, goal, vision, the thing that’s sitting in tummy that you really want to achieve. Once you have got that mapped out, it’s mapped out, but I cannot personally write them because I haven’t got the attention span to get more than 60 seconds in. Right.


However, you bring your colleagues in from Mint who will go, Do you know what? I’ll sit with you for 10 minutes and talk it through and we’ll make loads of notes. And then we’ve got the semblance of a plan. Strategy started. Without your vision for your company, it always comes back to you guys, always. Without your vision for your company and what you’re trying to achieve, plans and strategies are a waste of time. Once you get that nailed. If you come in, write a strategy, if the word frightens, you get, get one of us, I could write yours. I just can’t write my own, you know, get someone in to help you get that bit down so that you can continue your learner journey. Does that make sense? Cause we, we bandy these words around you know, and they’re just only words, they’re meaningless and they’re bits of paper, if you’re not going to do anything with them, but I agree wholeheartedly with Alan and Pete, without that forward thought on what you’re trying to achieve.


All of the work you do in your website, that stops it just being a pretty poster on Google. You know, we’ve gotta be moving it forward to somewhere and I’ll happily share, share my journey with my new website building what I’m doing, I’ve got no problem. I’ll do some blogs on it from start to finish. So if those of you who at the start, you come on that journey with me, those of you who are much more set up, top into Alan and Pete and the other people in the group, but Alan and Pete, I’ve just seen that you’re going to sort some stuff out. Awesome. That’s what Mint is about, but just know we’re here to ask.


So, just picking up on, on Marsha’s comment as well. I had somebody ring me out of the blue. I’d never met him or heard of him or anything. He just got my number from someone. And he said, he spent a lot of money on having a website built. And over a year down the line, he hadn’t had a single inquiry from it. So he’d gone back to the agency who built the website and they’d started quoting him for social media campaigns and ad campaigns and everything. That’s going to make him spend more money to try and get traffic to the site. And the first thing I did was I went on his website, went straight to his contact page and sent them an inquiry and never had anything back.


And few weeks later they rang me and I told him that and he said, oh, I’ll have to go and look into that because he basically wasn’t, he could have been getting inquiries, but he wasn’t getting them. He wasn’t receiving them either. He’s not checking his emails or there’s something wrong with the contact form. So it’s, I would encourage everybody to look at their own websites and get like, as Nicola’s said, as Pete said, we get feedback from, from our customers, ask people to go and poke around in your website and try. And what do developers say? Test to pass and test to fail.


Okay. So Pete, I’m going to bring you in. What I’m going to do after this, I’m going to tag you in a post in the group. If anybody wants each other to go and look at the website, the people on this training course now, please go and look at each others website, put a call out, I’ll tag you all together. You’ve all sat here. Thank you so much with us. You might as well be checking each other’s website. Cause like Alan’s saying, one of you might click on something. It doesn’t work. You haven’t noticed it for two years. And then all of a sudden you’ve got thousands of inquiries that you missed because you never got that email. That you can do for each of them really quickly, Pete, for you. How do we round this off now?


So my challenge back to everyone is, is around when was the last time you updated your updates on your website? Have you, is your website up to date? Have you got security issues? When was the last time like Alan said, you tested that big purple button to make sure that worked, that contact form. Links. Have you got broken links and something you were linking to externally a year ago might not be there anymore. You need to go back to your website on a regular basis and check the links, check, check everything, check your content. Is your content still relevant? Your own content? If it’s not change it, remove it, adapt it. Have a look at the analytics. Are there pages on your website that are never being looked at? If they’re not, can people find them, are they relevant? Do you need to remove them?


Have a content review, get some feedback like Alan said. I think there’s a, yes, there’s a lot of things you can do with strategy. There are a lot of basic things you could do on a regular basis and it’s worthwhile setting yourself reminders to go back in yourself and do those checks to do those updates. Do those content reviews. That, that, that would be my challenge back to everybody. And hopefully within, I would say, I would say like a four week intention setting goal to do that, everyone to do that on their website and just, just make sure it’s all up to date.


I’ve put it in the chat. So three challenges for your website, audit your website, your links, update stuff. And I haven’t, otherwise we’d have 25 challenges. So I’ve just put, audit your website. Audit links, get each other to look at it, the thing about your updates and start thinking about your analytics. I think if you did that, then the analytics would tell you about the content that’s working and the pages that aren’t working and the pages that are working. And so, so then you can go, I know that these type of blogs always get loads of attention and, and all that, this, this, and this. So that’s your three challenges for your website. And then I said for customer journey challenge, sit down and ask yourself, do you genuinely ask everybody how they find you? With kickstart, right, every single email inquiry I have had, I

have just put on the bottom, love to help you, going to pass you to Peter clearly, Peter will sort you out. Where did you find us?


And I just said, may I ask where you found us? I try to make it a little bit more formal and a little bit more polite, right? Rather than how did you find this? Like, may I ask how you found us? Now, it’s actually a closed question because they could say no. I’ve never had a no, every single response is I found you here. And every single one has been off the government kickstart website. So every single email I have received has not come through our socials, has not come through word of mouth. Every single email has said we found you on the government website, which then just goes to show how important that has been for us to be able to help the dozens and dozens and dozens of people get, get work placements.


You know? So you’ve just got to remember to ask because it’s that important that you do ask, right? We ask every member who joins us and sometimes it’s tricky, you know, Niall like, I’ve known you for years. So could I pin back all the years I’ve known you and where I met you? Probably if I sat down all day. So, you know, for some people you’re just not going to find that out, but you know, they’ve been in your network for that long, right? So your customer journey stuff, if you haven’t got that mapped out with pretty diagrams and I met this person here and they bought there or I made 20 sales here and I stood there, that’s the stuff I’ve got to start mapping out and we’ll do more training on that. I’m happy to do more training on that. And your website audit your website, audit, getting analytics, but then for that, for something to happen with that.


So it’s not just a pretty poster. Okay. So is that fair? Is that fair?


Now, just really quickly for me, cause I’m asking my customers, how did you find the structure of this training, where it’s not structured training? Right. Can you just put it in the chat kind of just thumbs up if you think we should do something like this again on different topics or not. Right. Thumbs up, thumbs up in the chat, tell us, actually switch the thumbs on and all, then you don’t, you don’t feel obliged to switch the thumbs on if you haven’t enjoyed it. Right. I want to just know, because I feel like we, as a team have got so much knowledge and we’re not actually we used to, but we’re not sharing it as much because I’m bringing all these trainers in. But yeah, we, we can help you an awful lot, you know would depend on the topic, but it was great.


Yeah. I think for some topics it won’t work, I think there’s topics that need formal training, but I think if we’re coming together as a community to discuss our collective maybe issues or challenges, then perhaps this is a little better. Yeah. Laura, it worked for you because we have different level, more fluid. Depends on the topic, works for you. Okay, cool. Any feedback that you want to send me, Alan or Pete please do. Put it in the chat when I put it in the group. We don’t ever want to waste our time delivering sessions that you guys don’t enjoy because it’s just a waste of time, enjoy and learn from. So we just need to do it. Yes. Marsha, we could do four to five people groups brainstorming, 30 minutes on each others. We do all the brainstorming in the tasters.


And I do it in in the funded training because I’ve only got an hour, we tend not to brainstorm in these, but actually if you all came together and you split it up into two groups and you all looked at each other’s websites, that would be a really good use of an hour. It really would. So that’s such a good suggestion. Leave that with me. Cause we would have to plan that as a topic with a purpose. So you came together, you brainstormed a thing and then you did something for each other. That’s a really nice one. I like that Marsha, thank you.


Pete, Alan, let’s. Yeah. Okay, perfect. Right. Let’s go for a cup of coffee. Thank you so much for your attendance and your questions and your listening and your biting and your chipping in. And, and those are here who we don’t see very often. It has been lush. So thank you so much.